Still from El Equipo
Documentary filmmaker Bernardo Ruiz recently spoke with Luis Moreno Ocampo, the assistant prosecutor in the Trial of the Juntas depicted in the Oscar-nominated film Argentina, 1985 by Santiago Mitre, in which he is played by the actor Peter Lanzani.
Ruiz’s documentary, El Equipo explores the decades-long relationship between Clyde Snow, an American forensic scientist who testified in the trials, and the group of Argentine students he trained who would go on to form the Argentine Forensic Anthropology Tea (EAAF in Spanish.) Argentina, 1985 is currently playing in U.S. theaters and streaming on Amazon Prime, and El Equipo airs this fall on PBS.
The interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Bernardo Ruiz: You were very young when you prosecuted this historic trial—32, when the trial started. What impact did the Trial of the Juntas have on you and your career?
Luis Moreno Ocampo: The junta trial changed my life. This was my first case. As the movie shows, I told Strassera, [Chief prosecutor of the junta trials] ‘I never tried a case in my life.” [Before that] my job was more analytical, preparing draft positions for super cold cases or teaching criminal law. And suddenly I needed to do the investigation of this huge trial. So it was [laughs] really my beginning. And I started to think, “okay it's normal to prosecute top leaders— that's normal.” And life was very generous with me because I kept doing big cases—first in Argentina. Then, 20 years later [in 2003] I became the first chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court. So, when I had to investigate atrocities, how to apply the law in very complicated political environments—all of this was [informed by] lessons I learned in the junta trials.
Still from Argentina, 1985 by Santiago Mitre
BR: What can you tell me about meeting Clyde Snow for the first time?
LMO: Clyde testified the first week [of the Junta Trials.] I met him before his testimony in the court…to understand what he was planning to say, what he knew. During that first week, we presented witnesses who provided the background of the problem, so many witnesses were politicians, the former president of the country, to the former ministers, trying to explain the big frame. In those days, in Argentina, people were thinking, “we cannot prove this case. There is no way to prove it.”
Snow did two important things: he exhumed the bodies [with the future EAAF members] using archaeological methods… and then he identified people, showing that they [had been] in secret centers and [had been] executed with a bullet in the skull. In other words, they had been executed while under the control of the army.
BR: What impact did Snow’s testimony have on the case?
LMO: His findings in the courtroom were very important because he was very well respected. It was scientific evidence from an impartial authority about an aspect of the strategy implemented by the junta leaders. And, I did not predict this, but the pictures he showed in court created a really dramatic scene. It became something people remembered. It was [the photograph] of the skull. He displayed the bullet in the skull. It was great testimony.
Still from El Equipo by Bernardo Ruiz
BR: How did you work with Snow and a number of the founding members of the Argentine Forensic Anthropology Team afterwards—like Mimi Doretti, Luis Fondebrider, Patricia Bernardi and Morris Tidball-Binz?
LMO: After that, in subsequent cases, Snow gave us a very complete study [of enforced disappearances], information collected with the young people that became the Argentine Forensic Anthropological Team. In fact, one of the members of my investigation team, “Maco” Somigliano, later became a member of the Argentine Forensic Anthropology Team… But, the last time I met Clyde Snow was in Oklahoma in 1988. The State Department invited me to do a tour in the U.S. and I asked them to go to Oklahoma to meet Clyde. He was a very funny guy. With him, there was no bullshit… in his work, he was just trying to find the truth. That was important for him. And I loved that…He was not just a very serious professional, he had a passion for what he was doing. He wanted to do something to transform the world he was living in - all this was unique. I really loved him.
BR: Obviously you've been doing a lot of discussions around Argentina, 1985 in the lead up to the Oscars. How is the film resonating with audiences from your perspective?
LMO: I did not expect the numbers. In Argentina, the movie was watched by one million people in the theaters in the first month. Now, much, much more on the Amazon platform. I found it fascinating how the movie talks to people from different places, some of them obvious like Spain or Brazil—for them the idea of prosecuting their own dictators is something [audiences] like. But there are some surprises. The other day, I was teaching a lecture at Harvard and one of the students was from Kazakhstan. And he told me how the movie was talking about Kazakhstan. So the movie is not just about Argentina 1985. The movie's about democracy in the world in 2023.
BR: On that note, there's been a lot of reporting on the rise of right-wing extremism and fascism. Do you think the themes in this film are resonating internationally now given that political context?
LMO: Yes, exactly. This is a very good moment for the movie. For the new generation, democracy is at risk in the world, democracy is vulnerable. And many people feel that.
___________________
*Bernardo Ruiz is a two-time Emmy Award-nominated documentary filmmaker and a member of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences. He was born in Guanajuato, Mexico and grew up in Brooklyn, New York. El Equipo is his fifth documentary feature as director. His feature credits as director include: The Infinite Race (ESPN’s 30 for 30, 2020), Harvest Season (Independent Lens, 2019), Kingdom of Shadows (Participant Media, 2015) and Reportero (POV, 2013).
